In this episode of Synergy Loves Company, host Eric is joined by Shaun Jex, author of "Dreaming in Digital: The World of Disney Video Games," to explore the extensive history of Disney’s involvement in the world of video games. They discuss the origins of Disney games, starting with the early Nintendo Game & Watch releases, and trace the evolution through classic titles like DuckTales, the impact of the Kingdom Hearts series, and modern games such as Dreamlight Valley and Disney Illusion Island. The conversation covers how Disney characters have been used in games, surprising and strange Disney video game adaptations, and Sean’s experience researching and playing many of the featured titles. Eric and Sean also talk about Disney’s successes and missteps in game development, how Disney is approaching collaborations with indie game studios, and the potential future of Disney gaming—including Disney’s role in gamified park experiences, investments in platforms like Fortnite, and how Walt Disney might have viewed the medium. Whether you’re a retro gamer, a Disney parks fan, or curious about the future of interactive entertainment, this episode covers a wide range of milestones and trends in Disney video games.
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00:01 --> 00:44 Cindy Loves Company. We have this coterie of rich franchises, the company now that people want to engage with. I came here to try and continue what Walt Disney and his associates set in motion 50 years ago, which is to experiment with every new and innovative kind of entertainment possible. It's what we hope to do here.
00:44 --> 00:47 Is to really develop something that.
00:48 --> 02:16 Well, just more than an entertainment enterprise, it's something that contributes in many other ways. Before Sonic the Hedgehog grabbed his first ring, and even before Mario and Luigi had to find the princess in another castle, there was a different iconic video game hero, Mickey Mouse. Wait, what? Hey, this is Synergy Loves Company, where we explore how Disney connects to everything. So you can feel connected to Disney even when you can't be at the theme parks. I'm Eric, and today we're diving into the tangled history of video games and Disney. And actually, the two go way back, like back to the days of Pac man and Pong, to the first big video game boom of the early 1980s. And recently, I got my hands on this new book, Dreaming in Digital the World of Disney Video Games. From arcade cabinets and handhelds to platformers, RPGs, and MMOs, it features 50 different milestone games from Disney's complicated history with video games. But it gets even better, because keeping me company today is the author of the book, Sean Jecks. Sean, we welcome to the show.
02:17 --> 02:20 Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really, really excited to be here.
02:20 --> 02:56 Well, I was really, really excited when I saw this book because as I mentioned to you earlier, it kind of is what I love to do on Synergy Loves Company. I love to match up Disney with something that is not necessarily solely Disney, something else out there in the pop culture atmosphere. And it's like this. I love it. I had to pick it up right when I saw it. So, yeah, I want to get the story. I've been reading the book, but I want the story from the source, from you. So we got to start at the beginning. How did Disney even become involved with video games in the first place?
02:57 --> 04:49 Yeah, well, there's kind of a couple different answers to that. So, as you mentioned, the first Disney video game was very early 80s. It was 1981. And that was for the game and watch system, which was a real rudimentary system. If you've seen those, like the LCD screen, just a couple buttons that you pushed. But Disney's relationship and that the game and watch is from Nintendo, but their relationship with Nintendo actually goes way back before Nintendo was even making video games. So Nintendo Started as a card company making playing cards. And in I think it was 1959, they worked out a deal licensing with Disney to start having Disney characters on their playing cards, which led to a huge increase in sales for them. And then that kind of paved the way for that relationship later when they started working on the Game and Watch system, which originally was just created. If you are familiar with the story, the creator was on the train one day watching commuters play with their calculators to entertain themselves to and from work. And he was like, well, we've got to be able to do something better than that. And so decided to pitch this idea to Nintendo for the Game and Watch system that used the same sort of LCD technology as these calculators and would be a small handheld that they could take with them. And the first one of those for the Game and Watch system came out in 1980. And then within a year they were introducing more titles on basically their second generation program. And Mickey Mouse was the first one of the Disney games that they created for that. It was, yeah, just a very simple game featuring Mickey.
04:49 --> 05:34 That, that, that was the. I mean, that's like the beginning in your book. You kind of get into that. And that was like shocking to me because I never read like I've. I heard of the Game and Watch, but I would have never kind of associated it with Disney and Mickey. And, and you know, it's those, those Disney characters are like, they're like gold, right? Because like they're so recognizable. Mickey especially. And so you got 50 video games in your book. And I was wondering what were some of the ones that like best utilized the Disney characters like that Game and Watch with Mickey. Was it just kind of Mickey on a game or was it really quintessentially Mickey?
05:35 --> 07:12 Well, so like the Game and Watch wasn't really especially the first one because it was just Mickey on a farm, catching eggs as they rolled down a thing and trying to keep them from hitting the ground. So like, if you ever played any of the old like Tiger Electronics games that the little handhelds like that, and there's like one or two controls and not much going on with it at all, that's really all the Game and Watch was in terms of games that really brilliantly captured the characters. I think if we're going with a couple titles, I've got to put DuckTales that came out in 89 from Capcom. I think it's, it's one of the best Disney games that was ever created in terms of the graphics, the soundtrack it so perfectly captures, like if you've played the game, it's a platforming game and you go to different locations around the world and even to the moon. That really made it feel like you were kind of getting into an Uncle Scrooge adventure, much like the cartoons with DuckTales or even really like the old Carl Barks comics where Uncle Scrooge is, you know, traveling around the world and going on these exotic adventures, almost like an Indiana Jones type character. And the video game really had that sort of feel. And I think it's cool, especially if you were a fan, because you had classic villains from ducktales like magicka, Dispel and the Beagle Boys and Flint Heart, Glamgold all in the game as well. So it's one of those games that really let you dive into the universe if you are a fan and be part of it.
07:13 --> 07:41 That one is one of my favorites of all time, I'm not going to lie. And I know they did like the kind of remaster of it for the phones. And I had. I still have it on my phone. I don't think it works so well. I keep on loading it on there when I've gotten new phones because I don't think they've done any updates or anything. But I just. That that was one of those games from my childhood too. So, like that one, I totally know exactly what you're talking about. It was the DuckTales game.
07:41 --> 09:13 Yeah, it's. It's just so good. Everything about it, the graphics, like, I know on the remastered they kind of updated the graphics. But I love those originals as well. And the, the soundtrack, especially like the moon theme I think is the one that stuck with everyone. They even ended up working that into like later lore. When they remade the DuckTales cartoon, they turned it into a lullaby in the show. So it really just had a lot of lasting power. I think another one that I'd put in there and I think was actually really kind of inspired was what they did with Kingdom Hearts is another favorite. The ability to take all of these classic Disney characters and then the Square Enix, like Final Fantasy characters, you wouldn't ever really think of them merging under any circumstances. And they pulled it off so beautifully. And again, it gave you this really cool experience to actually go into these characters worlds. I love the fact that rather than taking all the characters and kind of lumping them all into one world where you work through different bosses, you actually had to travel to the different planets where the characters were. And so it gave you the chance to go into Halloween Town from the Nightmare Before Christmas, or, you know, you actually jumped into a book and went to the Hundred Acre Wood and went to Wonderland, and they combined in really surprising ways and exciting ways that let you experience those worlds in completely different than you ever would have expected to.
09:13 --> 10:01 No. And so Kingdom Hearts is one that, like, I've, I, I've only ever really kind of watched from afar. I haven't really gotten a chance to play those games. And I think it has to do more mostly with the consoles that I actually owned and the availability and, you know, as far as like, that kind of stuff. But no, like, I've always been so, like, intrigued by it, which that's every. Everyone who I know has played it or gotten into it says that it is like the greatest as far as some, you know, the gaming goes. And, and just like those worlds. And it's like, I know we've seen those, like, walk around characters of like, the, the Mickey and Goofy from like, Kingdom Hearts that popped up in, in like, Disneyland at one point. And it's like, we need to do more of that. I think that would be awesome.
10:02 --> 10:20 Yeah, that would be incredible. I would, I would love to see more from that. They're. They're really great games. The. The plot can get extremely complicated. So if, like, if you're, if you, if you're getting into them, be prepared for that. You might need a spreadsheet to keep track of all the different plot lines, but it is great.
10:20 --> 10:28 And that, I think, is the thing that has kept me away. And as I was reading into it, it was like, there is a lot here.
10:28 --> 11:51 Yeah, there is a lot going on enough that they've now spun it out into manga and light novels. And there was even for a while talk of an animated series, although unfortunately that that never ended up happening. And I think if I was going to throw another one on there for games that I think really captured the characters, I'd go more modern. And I think Dreamlight Valley has really done an amazing job creating a new experience for gamers. So, like, a lot of people will describe it as well, it's Animal Crossing, but set in Disney, which is kind of true in that it's a cozy game. It's really more focused on vibes than it is on plot, although there is more story than there is to a game like Animal Crossing. Another thing that it kind of just fulfills dreams. I think for a lot of Disney fans just to be in what almost seems like a casual real world experience with these Characters you get to go in, you get to build your environment and then invite them into it, sort of. But everyone that comes in adds their own sort of twist to the area that you're creating. And I think that sort of cozy, familial thing is what a lot of people love about Disney. And so getting the chance to do that in a really low stakes sort of environment I think is a lot of fun.
11:51 --> 11:55 A lot less involved than a Kingdom Hearts situation.
11:55 --> 11:56 Yeah, for sure.
11:56 --> 12:53 More casual. More casual. But that gives us the kind of, in a way, kind of those games that you gave us also kind of give us the, like the breadth of Disney video games and how there are so many different, you know, styles and types and ways to kind of get into it. So we talked about some of the ones that use the characters really well and those ones are like really famous ones that I've heard of. You know, if I haven't played them, I've heard of them and dabbled in some. But I want to know. So you did a bunch of research and I know like in the, in the introduction you say that you picked these 50, but you had tons to choose from as far as the history of Disney gaming. What were some of the strangest or most surprising kind of games that popped up in that, like this is a Disney video game situation.
12:56 --> 16:03 So one of the ones that made it into the book and I don't know, I mean it's. I don't know if you'd call it one of the strangest. It had such a convoluted story behind it, which was. It was just called Donald Duck when it was released on the Famicom system. You never got it on the nes or rather you did in the US but it was called Snoopy's Silly Sports Spectacular. The way it worked is there was back in the 80s, if you, you might remember these games, there was a games that were called like Summer Games and it was. You played the Olympics and there was a Winter Games and Winter Games too. And it became a pretty big craze creating these games that gave you Olympic decathlon type events, which then inspired a parody called Alternative World Games where it was very silly versions of Olympic type sports. Donald Duck was basically a Disney fied version of Alternative World Games. It was took those games and just kind of plopped Donald Duck in it and changed them a little bit. So it already had kind of a weird origin story. You know, it's not really a real likely pairing. But then because of licensing, once it came to the United States they didn't have the licensing to use the Donald Duck character here, so it had to get switched over to Snoopy. And so I think that's one of those, those really weird. When I looked through it, there were a bunch of games that would be released like that where they had Disney licensing rights in one country but not in another. So you might find it under one title that had a Disney related name in Japan, but not in the US Some of the other ones, I think just in general, and I've talked to people who really loved it, but it was conceptually so strange was the. I think it's Goofy's. Goofy's Extreme Skate Adventure. It's not in the book, but it was just sort of, it's still so conceptually funny to me that it kind of came on the tail of video games like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, which, you know, were huge smash hits. And they wanted to kind of capture that energy. And so they took Disney characters and put them on skateboards and then they, they also, they wanted to kind of have the feeling of the soundtrack. And you know, Tony Hawk Pro Skaters, generally considered to have one of the best video game soundtracks ever, with lots of punk. There's, there's metal and stuff like that on it. And that's not gonna overly translate well to a Disney game. So they use like a little bit of pop punk and a little bit of like Radio Disney hits. And then it's, it's, it's such a, it's such an odd sort of combination. I know what they were doing in the market that they wanted to capitalize on, but it's just sort of, sort of funny conceptually because they're both great. But the worlds of Tony Hawk and the worlds of Disney couldn't be more different. So attempting to try to marry them into one is a. Was an odd choice.
16:04 --> 16:44 Yeah, that, that one is, it's kind of one. I feel like Disney gets into that sometimes where they like try to, to replicate something but within the Disney parameters. And it doesn't quite, doesn't quite hit the same thinking. This kind of skinned Snoopy, Donald Duck thing kind of. It's kind of a wild idea to me too because that, that, it's like we couldn't get Donald Duck so we'll just put Snoopy on it is kind of like, you know what I mean? Like that idea of we just, we just need a recognizable, a recognizable name to put on it.
16:44 --> 18:06 Disney, well, the precursor to Disney Interactive, where it was Disney's own video game studio, didn't really even get started until like 1989. And then even when they got started in that, they were just working with third party creators that would make the game and then give it to them and they would slap the Disney name on it. And so the quality, because Disney wasn't really involved in designing video games at the time, the quality can be real uneven in some of those games. So you've got, you do have some really great stuff, but then you have some stuff that was like, well, this was just, you know, the Disney name slapped on it. And you know, Disney apparently even later said some of the failure of that was because of those quality issues and because they were really more familiar with making movies than they were creating video games. And so they were kind of out of their depth in some of those areas. So it can be a little hit and miss. I think you do have some that aren't as great, but then you have like everything that they created with Capcom in those early days was incredible because you had DuckTales and the rescue Rangers game and Darkwing Duck and you had just an unbelievable amount of talent working on them as well. So I think it's like anything, there's, there's, there's good out there, but you have to kind of wade through some of the nonsense too, sometimes.
18:08 --> 18:33 Yeah, no, and speaking of the good and the nonsense, because with so many Disney video games, I do have to ask the question, how many of these were you able to get your hands on and play before putting them into the book? Because even I think you even say, like one of the best parts of doing the research is playing the games. So.
18:33 --> 20:04 Yeah, absolutely. So I joked. Well, because the first book that I wrote was about animated characters. And so I joked that really it just gave me an excuse to sit around and watch cartoons and old animated movies and then tell everyone it was for research. And so with this book, you know, it was all, what else would be good? Well, I'd love to sit around and play video games some more. So I'll write a book about video games and I can call that research when I sit around and play them. I played, I've played of the 50, I think I've played 30 or 31. So a pretty good chunk. Some of the ones like you can still get your hands on the game and watch, but it's usually like a special order through ebay or something like that. And the price gets up there pretty good. And getting your hands on some of the tiger electronics things, one of the games that's in the book is. And I probably won't even pronounce this right, but Onk Pixu, which is French name, I believe, for Uncle Scrooge. And you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to get my hands on that. So those ones were a little harder to get. To get my hands on. Some of the games I just had to do with systems that I have. Like, I have Fantasia Music Evolved, which was on like the Xbox with the Kinect was not something I really had access to. I could probably still play that at some point, but you know, there was. It was hit and miss on some of those.
20:04 --> 20:08 Gotcha. Yeah. No, it's. I mean, I. It does kind of.
20:08 --> 20:08 It.
20:08 --> 21:15 It does kind of matter what, what you have to play them on or what you've had in the past to play the games on. Because as. As I go through like the. The history of these games, it's like there was no. There'd be a span of time where it was like they were working with maybe one specific console, but it really isn't. They jump around to who they're working with. You mentioned, like the Xbox. There was a lot that they did with Xbox for a while, which, you know, it's like they get a contract going and they rock and roll with it. And then it's like when they were doing that Xbox, Xbox360 stuff, there might have been less than happening on like PlayStation and Nintendo side, but it's like it really depends on those. Those systems that you have. Of course too. I know you're not gonna like, you know, go buy an arcade cabinet for some of those that were only arcade, you know. So like. Yeah, some of them are just inaccessible these days. I also don't know if you need to like, get your hands on a game and watch to kind of understand the concept of. Of gameplay. Right. It's. It's kind of.
21:15 --> 21:17 I would actually explanatory.
21:17 --> 21:17 What's it.
21:17 --> 22:15 Yeah, I would actually love to get my hands on that. Now I will say, while I haven't played the Mickey Mouse on the game and watch, there was a different version of it later that didn't have Mickey Mouse as. As the character. It's the exact same game, but because of licensing things, they just released it with. With a different character where you're still catching the eggs and all of that. And I think it's just called egg instead of Mickey Mouse and. And that you can. You don't need a game and watch on the Nintendo Switch. They've got their, like, they've got the NES Online collection and the Game Boy Online collection and things like that. And one of them has a handful of game and watch games on it. So I have played it, just not the Mickey Mouse version. So that's kind of fun. The fact that you can still kind of get the experience for what was the exact same game just with the one little character switched out.
22:16 --> 22:28 That's pretty awesome. I did, I did write that down because I do have a switch and we do have access to the. Those older games, you know, like the kind of arcade NES and all that kind of stuff.
22:29 --> 23:04 Some of the ones. So like if you go to any kind of retro arcade, a lot of them have like that Tron cabinet in them. So you still can play that. So that's pretty cool because that is a. That is a fun game to play and to get your hands on. Yeah, it's a little harder on some of the. I've played them, but some of the games like Tron Deadly Disks that were on the Intellivision. It's not real easy to get your hands on Intellivision now, so I wouldn't think so. And on some of those you can find emulators and stuff for them online, but they're not. The emulators aren't always great.
23:04 --> 23:43 No, I am impressed by your having played 30 some of them because that's a good amount, I don't think. As I went through this game, I was like, I maybe had. I could, I could get like 10. I was like, I for sure have 10 of these solid that I've played like longer than just like a. Looking at it here at someone's house or something. But no, that's. I. Let's get into talking about like our. Your video game history. So like, were you the kid who had all the consoles? What were the. Those games that you grew up on? Those like, you know, the video game consoles and actual games that. That were your go to.
23:44 --> 25:08 So my first gaming system was a Commodore 64. So that's. That's going way back. I still love the Commodore 64, but I didn't have any of these games for them. But I did have. I had an nes. You know, I had a, an NES and then later a Sega Genesis. And so some of those, like the early, those Capcom games that I talked about, those were ones that were definitely on the list of things that I played. And boy, I'd love to say that I was great at them, but I was not. And I'm still not overly like, I've beat DuckTales and some of those, but I am terrible at the Darkwing Duck game. And then, you know, it's funny because I didn't actually have an SNES and some of those, so I did not get on the first time around. Some of the games, like the Lion King or Aladdin, I've played them since and they are as hard as everyone says, at least. At least in my experience. And then I kind of came back around to it with the PlayStation. So the first PlayStation going forward, the Wii. So I, you know, played Epic Mickey when it first came out, which I loved, but I've had a lot of different systems. There's just a little gap there in, like, the SNES and that time period where I didn't.
25:09 --> 26:15 Gotcha. Yeah. No, when you were starting out, I was like, your 80s to 90s journey is very similar to mine. We had the NES and we opted for the Genesis instead of the SNES when that came out. So I had those two growing up. But I will say, talking about video game skill, I was the quintessential younger brother player too, growing up. So, like, we'd play Mario. My brother would go like, you know, five levels before he died, and then I would be Luigi and immediately fall in the pit and it would be his turn again. So I, I don't have the video game skills very much just because I didn't get that much time on the game. But no, it's, it's, it's. It's a. It's kind of interesting how. How those consoles do shape the games that you love. Because, like, DuckTales, like we were talking about before, like, that was an NES game and it was like the Disney game. As far as Disney games, did you have like a favorite Disney game growing up?
26:17 --> 26:33 Oh, geez. Well, I hate to sound redundant, but I'd probably, probably stick with DuckTales if we're going well back. I just think it was. Of all of those games that I've played from that era, that one, I think is the perfect one.
26:35 --> 27:17 That's the next question. Is DuckTales the perfect game? And the answer is yes, of course. That's just definitive. You've heard it here. DuckTales is the perfect game. But no. So that kind of gets. I want to talk about kind of a big question here is like, does Disney itself. You talked about Disney Interactive when they started kind of taking control over the games that they were making, not just like licensing off their characters to a Nintendo game and watch or something like that. But like, actually this is, this is. We're making the games. Do. Does Disney do games well?
27:17 --> 28:55 Yeah, I think Disney can do games really well now. Of course they don't. They shut down their video game production now, so it's not even something they're doing anymore. But. But I can think of some of that era, like I actually really enjoyed Disney Infinity, which was a Disney game. But that, you know, that, that toys to life thing that happened back in like the Skylanders craze and all of that. And I thought that was a. That was a cool game that Disney did that lets you again, take control of the characters in kind of new, interesting ways. It's. It's really hard to tell because so much of what they've done has been through other outside companies. And that's. That's back to what they're doing today. So that there are still Disney games coming out, but they're working with other developers for the creation of them, which I, I kind of like, actually, because you've seen some things like more recently like Tron Identity and Disney Illusion island were both done by indie developers. And so I love that that is giving the smaller game studios a chance to work with such established franchises. And I think you get that it's resulting. And I think some of like Illusion Island, Tron Identity are some of the best Disney games that I've played. And I think it's because we're kind of getting out of that bubble into that independent sphere where you have people who are willing to take risks and do more interesting things with the ip. Yeah.
28:55 --> 29:02 Illusion Island. I did. I. I played that one. Like I said, we have the switch now and I, I loved it. It was great.
29:02 --> 29:47 Yeah, no, it's. It's so fun, you know, bringing. It's got that old platforming style kind of like that I grew up with. And I feel like that's another one where they just pulled it off completely. Like, the animations are great, the soundtrack is great. Mickey seems to only show up every so often in the. Like, he goes through phases of when he shows up in video games and then kind of goes away for a while. So it's. It's cool to get one that is all the classic characters again, like Mickey, Donald Goofy, where they're really integral to what's going on. You know, you do have some where it's just like Mickey, Donald Goofy kind of slapped on something like that sports game. This is a little bit different. The Disney Illusion island is like almost like watching a Mickey short that you get to be part of.
29:47 --> 30:32 And you mentioned Tron, which I want to bring up because. So Disney maybe doesn't grab the reins when it comes to video games. It's something that they let people kind of, they entrust, we'll say they entrust their characters to companies to do something great with, and sometimes it works out really well. Um, but as you said, one of their excuses was, was probably that, you know, we don't do the video games as well as we do the movies. We're focused on the movies. And over the years, Disney has made some video game movies. So I want to ask that what your opinion of the Disney video game movies are like, do they represent video games?
30:32 --> 32:35 Well, I, I actually think that they do. I love both the Tron films that have come out, and I, I especially love, obviously the original. And I think that, that feeling, as someone who grew up going to arcades and things like that, I love, you know, everything with Flynn and the arcades and the ability to go into. Well, I, I just love the whole Tron universe and actually jumping into the game and the, the grid and all of that. But I, I think that that is, Tron might be the definitive video game movie. Like, there are a lot of video game movies that are made and I, I might put that one as the video game movie. And I think Wreck It Ralph does in its own way too. Obviously the first one was more of a celebration of those old school arcade games, like the racing games. And Wreck It Ralph itself was very reminiscent of like the rampage arcade game. And I, I thought that was a lot of fun to go back and celebrate those. The, the scene in Wreck It Ralph where they are in like the villain support group watching that is, is one of my favorites because you can go through each of the characters and be like, oh, I played that game. And there's, there's Zangief from Street Fighter and I know him. And so I feel like they captured a lot of little details in that that you didn't have to be a hardcore gamer to enjoy. But if you were, you enjoyed it on a different level as well. There were little inside jokes that you got. And I think they did it with Ralph Breaks the Internet too, jumping more into the, you know, app games and the massive multiplayer online games that they sort of allude to in that. So I think even though, you know, they usually entrust the game making to other people in terms of capturing the spirits of gaming, they've done it really well in their films.
32:35 --> 33:04 Oh, for sure. I love too, like you talked about, like the villain support group kind of in. In Wreck It Ralph. Like, they do. That made me think of. They do a really good job of blending, like, real video games that exist in our world with these, like, fictitious video games that feel like they existed in our world even though they didn't. Like, Fix It Felix is. You know what I mean? It's like. Or the wreck. Like that whole Wreck It Ralph, Fix It Felix feels like a retro video game.
33:04 --> 33:28 Yeah. It's the sort of thing that when you're watching it, you can almost have that sort of Mandela effect of being like, no, I swear I remember seeing this and playing this because they did a good enough job creating it that you could almost convince yourself that, yeah, I played that game. I know that. I know what they're talking about. I would actually love to play a cabinet of Fix It Felix. I think. I think that would be incredible.
33:28 --> 33:52 Yes. No. And that. That's. I. So we're on the same page. I agree. I think they do. I do love Tron too. And you said it. You know, it's kind of. It kind of set the bar for video game movies. Right? Like, that was the one that. That really did it in a big way. I'm excited for Tron Aries. I know some people don't like what's it, Jared Leto, but no, I'm all for it.
33:53 --> 34:47 Yeah, no, I'm very excited. And I think the funny thing with those movies is that they tend to be like, Tron didn't do well on its release, and then decades later, everyone talks about it as a classic. And Tron Legacy really kind of flopped on its release too. And now you'll actually see a lot of online discourse of people who love Tron Legacy and are very vocal about it. So it seems like the public sentiment on that always tends to be like a decade or two behind when the movie comes. They end up loving it, but it takes a little while for people to get to saying how amazing it is. But, well, and luckily with Tron, they've kind of filled that in with. We've had games in between the movies, first for the Intellivision and then later like Tron 2.0 and there was an animated series. But yeah, it'd be nice if we didn't have to go 20 years every time before the next movie came out for sure.
34:48 --> 35:22 Speaking of 20 years in the future, let's talk a little bit about the future of Disney gaming. So you kind of give us a good, well rounded history. But I want to kind of get into your thoughts on where you'd like to see gaming go for the future of Disney. So I got some like events that I'll, I'll throw out. There are kind of milestones that are happening now or have happened, but just before we even get there. Where would you like to see video games go for Disney?
35:23 --> 36:49 I kind of alluded to it earlier. I love that right now they've started rather than just working with say like the big AAA studios that they've started putting it out there that they're more than happy to work with and push indie devs too, if they've got a good idea, if they can execute well, that they'll work with an indie developer, a smaller studio. And I'd love to see more of that because I think that some of the most interesting stuff happening in gaming right now is happening at those smaller studios. Sometimes where it's just like one or two people working on a game out of their home. They're, I think, doing some of the most outside of the box innovative thinking for games and coming up with things that are. There can be, I think sometimes a tendency to get focused so much on the wow of the technology and what they can pull off that sometimes that can be sacrifice experience and the fact that video games are supposed to be fun as well as, you know, visually stunning. And I think that the independent developers are really doing a good job of capturing that. So I would love to see Disney keep pursuing those relationships and letting them take, take a crack at what they can do with the characters and introduce some, some kind of exciting things that way.
36:49 --> 37:19 I mean that if we get more like Illusion Island, I'm, I'm all for that for sure, like we said about that game being great. But some, some other gaming things have been happening with Disney and I want to get your opinion on where you think they might end up or how you feel. They're, they're working with them right now. I'm going to kind of switch my order that I have them down here. And the first one I want to talk about is like the gamified park experiences like Millennium Falcon Smugglers Run.
37:20 --> 39:32 I think Smugglers Run is incredible and I do, I do love that. And the way that they've sort of turned it into. Well, it is, it is gamified. You kind of get a score and how they react to you is based on your performance. And I think that's a lot of fun. I think that they tried it on a grander scale with the hotel and I think that the Hotel could have been a great idea. I just think that the price point made it too difficult for the general public to go and experience it. Because I love the, the, the concept behind it where the entire thing is an interactive. It's very similar to, to live action role playing, really like a live action role playing game. And I think that's great. I think if they had been able to pull that off at a more achievable price point, it would have been an experience that I think would have blown a lot of people away. Because my understanding I didn't get to do it, but the people who did do it seemed to love it. It just wasn't sustainable at the price point. So taking that sort of gamification out into the everyday experiences I think is really cool. I like the idea of when we talk about the parks, I think what's cool about is it's easy when you go to a theme park or a movie or something like that to be a very passive observer of the entertainment. So like you sit on the attraction and you watch the way you're supposed to be entertained. I think it changes it when you are an active participant in the adventure. So in, in its own way, I think that's one of the reasons that I really loved like Tom Sawyer Island. You, you went to Tom Sawyer island and you weren't just, you know, sitting there being entertained. You were doing the exploring and discovering things and you played a key role in it. And so I think that gamification makes it almost more relational when you're in the parks so that you actually play a key role in the story. And I think you take something different away from that as, as a fan than you do when you're just like sitting and watching something happening in front of you.
39:32 --> 39:45 That's a good point. The like, even something as like low tech as Tom Sawyer island, right, like we've got Smugglers Run and we've got Tom Sawyer island, but they both give you that immersive experience.
39:46 --> 40:57 They, they did it really I loved and sadly some of these are going away. But like the, the Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom, I thought was, was a great experience that took a little bit of that video game like play where you had the cards and you interacted with things and chose the different cards to, to engage in the battles and yet let you explore the parks and see areas that you normally wouldn't see to go unlock things you'd have to go see, look through different store windows and go to little nooks and crannies. That you normally never would have bothered with. But Disney Imagineering is so great about packing everything with details that you really realized what you were missing by just walking straight by those. It forced you to interact with it on a deeper level. And so I think when they did that, or like the Pirates League adventures over in Epcot, it's had a variety of forms. I think it was like a Kim Possible game at first, and then DuckTales and Phineas and Ferb. I love that. I love that interactive element. So I'm all for. If they want to keep doing that and expanding that, I would love it.
40:57 --> 41:05 Dare I ask, if you were to armchair. Armchair Imagineer, a game like that, what would you put on it?
41:06 --> 41:45 I don't know. Like I said, I love the ones that they've done. And I think you've got a little bit of stuff like that now in there. If you have, like, the Play Disney app, I know there are things that you can do over in, like, Galaxy's Edge and things like that where you can interact with things. So if I were going to, just because of me, I think coming up with some sort of interactive over in Disneyland, if you go to Disneyland and come up with some sort of interactive game in Mickey's Toontown, I think that that would be amazing. So I think it's a perfect. They've got so much open park space there. I think it would be a perfect place for it as well.
41:45 --> 42:12 Oh, that would be a great setting. Yeah, that's perfect. That was some good. Some good gamified parks that we got into there. I love it. But I want to kind of. I'm going to kind of veer us off the parks for a little bit. And I want to ask about Disney, what you feel about and kind of what you think the future might be for Disney's investment in Epic Games and Fortnite, what do you feel about that relationship and do you think there's something there for the future?
42:15 --> 43:32 I mean, I don't. I don't have any problem with that relationship. I think it's an interesting merging of the two worlds. I'll be curious to see what happens. I know. I think right now or very recently, they were doing a crossover event like with Star wars and bringing in a ton of Star wars characters. And I think. And if. If they did do this, I think it's brilliant. I think they may have even included Darth Jar Jar as like, one of the characters that you could use. So look like Epic Games. Fortnite, that's not going to be for everybody. I know there were some people during, like, the D23 that they saw, and they were like, you know, what. What the heck is this? What? Why is this here? But not every form of entertainment, not every franchise is for everybody, and that's okay. And there are a lot of people who love Fortnite and a lot of people who love Disney. And I think if you can bring those two together in an interesting way, then I think it's great. I think if they can create something new and fun out of it, I think it's cool. So, you know, I may not really play it now. I have. I have kids who love Fortnite, so I don't have any problem with it all. I think it opens up interesting new relationships and I'd love to see what they end up coming up with out of it.
43:32 --> 44:01 That's where I'm at with it, too. I have. My son is way into. Into Fortnite and getting skins and all sorts of whatever things you can do in the game. And I just wanted to watch that G23. I was like, how do I. But no, he's into. I get the Fortnite Report. So I've seen some of the Star wars skins. So many things that they can do. It'll be. It will be interesting. Do you think we'll ever see Mickey in Fortnite?
44:02 --> 44:52 No, I'm going to say no because I don't think that Mickey would be. They'd be comfortable with Mickey shooting people. So I think that, you know, like, Marvel characters, Star wars characters, characters like that, I think they would be okay with. I'm just thinking, like, when they made Kingdom Hearts, Disney was very picky about the sorts of weapons. That's how we ended up with the Keyblade is more extreme. Weapons were proposed at first, and Disney said no. So I don't think you would see any of the, you know, the sensational 6 in. In Fortnite now. They, you know, leadership changes. Sometimes those things change. So I guess you never say never, but off the top of my head, I wouldn't expect to see him in there.
44:53 --> 44:59 That's. That's probably. I think I believe you on that one.
44:59 --> 44:59 I feel like that.
45:00 --> 45:06 That is probably. And there's no way around that in Fortnite. So, yeah, Mickey's probably not going to make it.
45:06 --> 45:35 I wouldn't expect it now. You know, like I said, you can't ever rule anything out and things change. But for the time being, I think that that would be kind of a. Kind of a line that they're not quite willing to cross yet. You know, if you want that, there are other avenues for it as now, you know, like the. The movies and stuff with Steamboat Willie that they're doing with those changes. So if you need a violent Mickey, they're outside of Disney Source for it.
45:35 --> 46:02 It's happening. It's happening all around. There's a lot to see, and I'm kind of excited to see where the future of Disney and games go. I don't like to talk about what Walt would have done because of course, we never know what Walt Disney would have done. But he was always very interested in technology. And at the very least, I think the idea of video games probably would have intrigued him in some way.
46:02 --> 46:37 It's definitely hard to tell. And I know people like to throw around a lot. You know, Walt would feel this and this about this, and I don't want to do that because I have no idea. But I will say that in everything I've read, he adored storytelling and the possibilities of storytelling. So I. I do think he at least would have been intrigued by the form as a new way to tell stories and would have been interested in seeing how they could expand that and bring stories to people in a new and meaningful way. Because video games, you know, have the capability of doing that when they're done. Right.
46:38 --> 46:56 So, Sean, thank you so much for joining me on Synergy Loves Company today. I had a lot of fun reading your book and then getting to talk about video games and Disney with you. So how can other people get connected to you? Where can they find you and your writing and all that kind of stuff online?
46:57 --> 47:24 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast. So if you want to find me, I'm on social media, like bluesky, Instagram threads@makemindmusic, and you can actually find. I have a weekly blog that I write about Disney and the world of Disney music called it's@makemindmusic.com so you can kind of keep up with what I'm doing there. And there's information on my various writing projects.
47:24 --> 47:45 Go check out the book. Go check out Make Mine Music. And once again, I'd like to thank Sean for keeping me company today and thank you for joining us for our conversation. Definitely. Go check out Dreaming in the World of Disney Video Games. There is a link below where you can find that book. Click it. You'll be able to get your own copy.
47:45 --> 49:53 If you're still listening. You're my kind of person, and I've got some exciting news to share with you. I also create a video version of this podcast on YouTube. It's the same show, but it just has some visuals to go along with the audio. And recently my channel has surpassed 1 subscribers, a huge milestone that I am thrilled about. And to celebrate very soon, I will be hosting a special live stream. It'll have a different format, but it'll still have tons of Disney connections and you'll even get to interact with me in real time. And if that sounds fun, make sure to follow me on social media so you don't miss the live stream announcement on bluesky. I'm rickhsynergy on Facebook, Instagram and threads. Just look for inergylovescompany now. Maybe YouTube's not your thing. I know you're listening to this. Maybe you're listening on the go right now. That's totally fine. Wherever you're listening, Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, whatever. Head to synergylovescompany.com for links to everything. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast so that you don't miss any Synergy Loves Company. And if you're not around for the live stream, no worries. I'll drop a recap right here in the audio feed so you don't miss a thing. Here's one more thing you can do for me. Could you tell a fellow Disney fan about the show? Bring a friend, a family member, a coworker, someone who loves Disney just as much as we do. Share your favorite episode on social media. Tag me so I can say hi. Or send them a direct link to synergylovescompany.com One more thing before we go. Synergy Loves Company is supported by listeners like you, and if you'd like to support the show, check out the show notes for a link to my Ko Fi page. Your support helps me keep improving and evolving the show to bring you even more Disney magic in your everyday life. Thanks again for spending your time with me on Synergy Loves Company.
49:53 --> 50:07 And remember, sometimes the most magical Disney experiences happen outside the theme parks, like in your own home, where you can immerse yourself in a Disney video game. And until next time, keep discovering the magic in everything.